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Pownall Hall & Streaky Flemish
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tonybenyon



Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard Elliot, the president of KOG, has very kindly informed me that 1888-1890 would have been too early by about a decade for Pownhall glass to have been manufactured by KOG for several reasons including the infancy of the business and transportation.

Rather than throwing light on the matter the plot has been thickened. The glass was either not made by KOG or the dates for the window are incorrect. The latter is highly unlikely because Pownhall had been decorated and sold on by 1890.

Belgian Opals anyone?
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victorrothman



Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 30
Location: New York, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

did you send him a copy of the photo?
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victorrothman



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Location: New York, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keithhill wrote:
This is the European "Cloisonne" process as described by the Manchester firm of Baxendale & Co in 1903 :-

"This is the new decorative Glazing, produced as a thin layer between two sheets of glass, the ornament being outlined in metal strips and the spaces between filled with translucent glass.
The colouring material being solid glass, the colours are permanent and the material is absolutely durable.
It is suitable in any position where ornamental glass is required, its main feature being the uncommon opaque effect which it combines with a bright transparent effect. Having a smooth surface upon both sides, it can readily be cleaned in the same way as ordinary glass.
This glass is very suitable for screens and partitions, as it cannot possibly be seen through, and the effect of the glass shows wll from both sides.
Customers own designs may be worked in this glass by
arrangement"

If my memory serves me, Sebastian Stobl had a damaged panel in for repair a few years ago, and he appealed in the Newsletter for information.
That panel was I think badly cracked and the filling (thousands of tiny glass balls) was jumbled up.
Also there was a large panel on the Antiques Roadshow a while ago.
Vic's description of La Farge's earlier cloisonne was fascinating - Is the 1883 window still around?
(Pics?)

At the front of Baxendale's catalogue is this little piece of glazing history:-

"In an interesting book published 1881,'Reminiscences of Manchester fifty years ago,' by J.T.Slugg, occurs the following:-

"At that time there was a very heavy duty on all kinds of glass, and as a consequence not a single shop window contained any plate glass, but shop windows were composed of small squares of ordinary Crown Glass. The first shop which made a venture in that line was one very near Mr Mountcastle's (in Market Street), I think a Milliner's, and called Chantilly House; this was before the duty was taken off. There were two windows, and in the centre of each was inserted a brass frame about two feet long and one-and-a-half broad, holding a sheet of plate glass. It used to be said that the two cost more than 30. If the object of the Proprietor was to cause a little sensation I am sure he was gratified, for everybody went to see these 'large' squares of plate glass"


I got a new scanner. Here is the "Old Philosopher".

The border is traditional lead came



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tonybenyon



Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vic: I did send the photo to Richard Elliot along with the detail but his opinion was that the combination of three colours would have been too early and approx turn of the century would be closer.

Bill Walters dates the window from "1886 onwards" but Henry Boddington who owned Pownhall is supposed to have sold up and moved out approx 1890 and the work on the house under the guidance of George Faulkner Armitage concluded.

I returned to my own photographs of the hall and you can see more ripple glass in another window, beneath the horse and on the left. Rather than the problem being solved it has become more complicated.



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stuartraybould



Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 3
Location: South Wales

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I afraid I have no contribution to add, but I only say that I find the discussion a delight to read.
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tonybenyon



Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without going into the subject in detail Belgian opals appear to have been well esablished in the UK by the end of the 19th century but between 1880-90 the Belgians were buying manufacturing patents from the USA. In which case if the complicated streaky opalescents were not available until post 1890 in the USA they would not have appeared in the UK until later. So, they're off the list too.

I suppose the window has to be later than supposed, unless someone knows better, and please no talk about pickling.
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victorrothman



Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 30
Location: New York, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you read "early history" by Paul Crist at
www.KOG.com

He states that there were stained glass manufacturers in New York,USA in the early 1880's. Some of these people started Kokomo Glass. Tiffany and LaFarge started experimenting with opal around 1878. LaFarge applied for a patent for opal glass in 1879 and received it in 1880,Patent #224831. You can Google it and read the application.
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tonybenyon



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Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did read the early history and found it very informative.
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victorrothman



Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 30
Location: New York, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: cloisonne glass Reply with quote

tonybenyon wrote:
Was Cloisonne Glass new in 1903? Ive never seen any Cloisonne glass in the flesh only a photograph of a front door but I thought you may be interested in the enclosed image by Adolpho Hohenstein from the 1890's.

I haven't a clue if it was made in the same way as its British namesake. Does the Baxendale catologue describe how it was put together?

How on earth did any satisfactory light manage to be transmitted through sand?


I just returned from the stained glass conference in Namur. Sebastian Strobl gave a paper on The London Cloisonne Glass Comoany. He closed by asking for any info that others could supply. You may want to contact him at
strobl@fh-erfurt.de
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tonybenyon



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Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again. Keith has already reminded me about the piece Sebastain wrote in the newsletter. My memory has always been is pretty awful. I was mainly curious about the Italian method which after your input appears to have been similar to the American method.

Now, you've reminded me about the piece Robing Neely wrote on the LeFarge windows in North Easton (SGAA magazine spring 2007) which you restored. I found the development of craft techniques from 1882 -1901, plating etc, very interesting and I wondered about the changes in the glass he was using or were there any changes over the 2 decades?
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victorrothman



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Location: New York, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaFarge's background was painting. So he was interested in color, light transmission and shading. He used whatever glass suited his purpose. His windows had commercial glass, antique glass, cathedral glass and of course opalescent glass. As well as chunk glass, and semi precious jewels. All plated in odd combinations. The windows look very strange in reflected light. The windows prior to 1888 or so had primarily custom rolled "experimental" glass and antiques, and chuck glass. The later windows had some commercially available glass as well as his custom glass. Some of his glass is deteriorating (weeping, sugaring, delaminating). The chunk glass looks like the glass color rods that glass blowers use and some look like slab glass chunks.
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tonybenyon



Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Victor, very concise information and I'm very appreciative but I've just been sidetracked by turning up this photo of a WJ Pearce window on the Buckinghamshire Stained Glass Site. The back ground landscape seems out of keeping with the dull figure work and includes some of the same glass as the Pownhall Triple Streaky Opalescents Ripples and has the same 'Pickled' quality. The window is dated 1926 but the inscription may have beeen added later to include the name of the widow with the husbands who had died in 1905.

I mentioned Walter J Pearce at the start of this thread and thought he may have been influenced by the Pownhall glass but I haven't seen enough of his work to know if he often produced windows in this odd pickled style - maybe someone else has!



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victorrothman



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here was a paper given at Namur called " Le verre opalescent: un transfert technologique" by Jean-Francous Luneau concerning the history of opalescent glass. He might be able to help in your quest.
jean-francois.luneau@libertysurf.fr
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