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Pownall Hall & Streaky Flemish
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tonybenyon



Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: Pownall Hall & Streaky Flemish Reply with quote

Those who were on last years Manchester Conference will recognise this Shrigley & Hunt window from Pownall Hall which appears as plate 22 in Bill Walters book on S&H. Bill provides a date from 1886 onwards, but the 'onwards' can only be 1890 when the decorative scheme concluded and the owner sold off the Hall.

The background glass is Streaky Flemish Opalescent and such a range of streakies was not avalable in mouth blown glass until after 1889 when Priors Early English Glass appeared followed quickly by the same streaky effects in Antique.

The Manchester school of ornamental glaziers including Wragge and Pearce was not established until later that 1890, so where did the glass come from was it British or Continental [Belgian?] and are there other examples of this glass being used in the UK before 1890?

Alas, rolled glass is surrounded by even more mystery than mouth blown and I suppose greater experiment was possible with the combinations of glass because it was a secular commission and all things considered it is a rare and important window because of the impact it possibly had on people such as Wragge and Pearce.

The glazing in the Victoria Baths [as seen on the TV in a recent episode of Life on Mars] could well be directly linked to this use of rolled glass - and let's not forget the presence of the fabulous Douglas Strachan in Manchester only some few years later when he was becoming interested in Stained Glass.

Fortunately for me Keith Hill [who should have appeared in a recent TV Programme on the restoration of Pugins home in Ramsey because he restored the glass - but didn't] took this photograph because I was too carried away by the moment and forgot.

Any light thrown on either glass or window would be greatly welcomed



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keithhill



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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony's posting prompted me to turn to my c1903 catalogue of Baxendales (Miller Street, Manchester).
Surprisingly there is hardly any mention of opalescent glass, apart from a brief glossary note describing it as "milky or translucent glass of various kinds, somewhat expensive, very useful for beautifying Lead Lights by giving importance to particular details". Not much help!
I guess they saw very little potential in this fantastic material. Paradoxically the catalogue devotes two full pages to "the new Cloisonne Glass" - a sure case of backing the wrong horse.
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tonybenyon



Joined: 01 Jan 1970
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was Cloisonne Glass new in 1903? Ive never seen any Cloisonne glass in the flesh only a photograph of a front door but I thought you may be interested in the enclosed image by Adolpho Hohenstein from the 1890's.

I haven't a clue if it was made in the same way as its British namesake. Does the Baxendale catologue describe how it was put together?

How on earth did any satisfactory light manage to be transmitted through sand?



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victorrothman



Joined: 01 Jan 1970
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Location: New York, USA

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John La Farge used a "cloisonné" method of fusing glass to copper strips. The first time was in "The Old Philosopher" window in 1883
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tonybenyon



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The process in the poster appears to be the same as Le Farges but in Britain 'Cloisonne' was the trade mark name for a manufacturing technique of plating coloured sand between two pieces of glass - quite mad. Needless to say it didn't take off. Anyway, I'm certain Keith has a better description of the techniques involved.

Adolpho Hohenstein's dates were 1854-1928 and so the poster may have been much later or earlier than I first thought.

Re Pownhall: have you ever come across any of the same Streaky Flemish Opalescents used in the USA around the late 1880's?
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victorrothman



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tourneying wrote:
The process in the poster appears to be the same as Le Forges but in Britain 'Cloisonné' was the trade mark name for a manufacturing technique of plating colored sand between two pieces of glass - quite mad. Needless to say it didn't take off. Anyway, I'm certain Keith has a better description of the techniques involved.

Adolpho Hohenstaufen's dates were 1854-1928 and so the poster may have been much later or earlier than I first thought.

Re Downhill: have you ever come across any of the same Streaky Flemish Opalescent used in the USA around the late W's?


Leafage patented opal glass in 1878, so we have had streaky opals since then. I am hot sure what you mean by "Flemish" glass. Here Flemish refers to a texture, about 1/4 the size of Pilkington's Flemish.
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keithhill



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the European "Cloisonne" process as described by the Manchester firm of Baxendale & Co in 1903 :-

"This is the new decorative Glazing, produced as a thin layer between two sheets of glass, the ornament being outlined in metal strips and the spaces between filled with translucent glass.
The colouring material being solid glass, the colours are permanent and the material is absolutely durable.
It is suitable in any position where ornamental glass is required, its main feature being the uncommon opaque effect which it combines with a bright transparent effect. Having a smooth surface upon both sides, it can readily be cleaned in the same way as ordinary glass.
This glass is very suitable for screens and partitions, as it cannot possibly be seen through, and the effect of the glass shows wll from both sides.
Customers own designs may be worked in this glass by
arrangement"

If my memory serves me, Sebastian Stobl had a damaged panel in for repair a few years ago, and he appealed in the Newsletter for information.
That panel was I think badly cracked and the filling (thousands of tiny glass balls) was jumbled up.
Also there was a large panel on the Antiques Roadshow a while ago.
Vic's description of La Farge's earlier cloisonne was fascinating - Is the 1883 window still around?
(Pics?)

At the front of Baxendale's catalogue is this little piece of glazing history:-

"In an interesting book published 1881,'Reminiscences of Manchester fifty years ago,' by J.T.Slugg, occurs the following:-

"At that time there was a very heavy duty on all kinds of glass, and as a consequence not a single shop window contained any plate glass, but shop windows were composed of small squares of ordinary Crown Glass. The first shop which made a venture in that line was one very near Mr Mountcastle's (in Market Street), I think a Milliner's, and called Chantilly House; this was before the duty was taken off. There were two windows, and in the centre of each was inserted a brass frame about two feet long and one-and-a-half broad, holding a sheet of plate glass. It used to be said that the two cost more than £30. If the object of the Proprietor was to cause a little sensation I am sure he was gratified, for everybody went to see these 'large' squares of plate glass"
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tonybenyon



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vic, I've included a detail of the Pownhall glass and you can see how it's also rippled - like sand after the tide had gone out. I'm using the term 'Streaky Rippled Flemish Opalescent' because it's the closest description I can provide. No one I've talked to knows its correct trade name.

The glass makers Sowerby in the North East of England were making Opals at the same time as La Farge but Neil Moat, the main Sowerby man, was on the same conference and didn't identify it as being Sowerby.

La Farge installed a window in Southwark Cathedral and while Steve Claire had the scaffolding up I had a close look but the glass didn't look the same. Steve had it on the bench and he may be able to shed light on any similarities.

Rolled and machined glass have been much ignored in the UK and we've lost a great deal of vocabularly to describle them. The trade mags of the time advertised Belgian Opals but as yet I haven't found anyone who can identify that particular glass.

Sluggs account is fantastic, Keith, the best I've read on the period but what was the purpose of the millions of balls in the Cloisonne process - to help refract the light, obscurity or to provide colour? It must have been Sebastians account that I read but what an insane technique!



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victorrothman



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw the LaFarge at Southwark. It is not one of his best. I later found out that the window was badly damaged at some time and was rebuilt in the UK.

The glass in you close up looks like what we call ripple glass. Kokomo glass was making this kind of glass in 1888. Tiffany, LaFarge and others used it. Their web site is
www.KOG.com
My employee (Danella Peltz)and I co-wrote a paper on LaFarge and it will be given at the Forum for Conservation in Namur in June.

[
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victorrothman



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The window is still in the original setting at the Crain Library in Quincy Massachusetts. I scanner is not working so I can not post the photo.
LaFarge used this technique a few times. The Worcester Museum in Massachusetts has a "Peacock" window. The Metropolitan Museum has the "Welcome" window and there is a private collector that has 2 small panels.
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tonybenyon



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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Victor: We also made Ripple in the UK but not as streaky and opalescent as the Kokomo. The date for the Pownhall glass and the Kokomo Ripple match and so we could be looking at some of its first use in the UK. Do you think that is possible?

Henry Holiday met La Farge in the USA, as you'll know, and visited his studio. He mentioned his glazing techniques at an open meeting of the Royal Institute of British Architects in 1890 [I think] and when he left Powell & Sons he opened his own studio and started to plate feverishly [at least his glaziers did] and continued until the glass selection of Antiques expanded and he had less need to do so.

The Le Farge style of glazing had a bigger influence on the UK than usually thought and it may be possible that Kokomo and its streaky palette may have impacted on our mouth blown glass - if it is Kokomo and if the dates fit.

It may be speculative at present but certainly worth someone taking a closer look.
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victorrothman



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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kokomo #249 looks close
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keithhill



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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I worked on a 3-light window by Sowerby about 12 yrs ago - Holy Trinity at Aldershot (identified and dated by Neil Moat - I think 1882).
My image shows some of the 'experimental' glass developed at his glassworks. The glasspaint is unstable - mostly lost. It seems likely that he deliberately underfired the paint rather than compromise the folds of the glass in the kiln. The sunflower pattern just visible at the top of the image is well fired and completely stable - this is painted on plain 'cathedral' glass.
The swirly green background quarries are just gorgeous.



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tonybenyon



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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vic, would Kokomo #249 have been available in the the 1880's?

Keith, the first time I saw a Sowerby mouth blown streaky was in Northumberland. It was pink, quite luminous, unpainted and surrounded by somber painted robing. I thought a lunatic had stopped it in and was chastised by Neil who informed me it was an example of Sowerbys 'Interleaved' art glass (patented in 1880 and available until circa 1900).

In the BSMGP 1995 magazine (not Journal) he wrote "In 'Interleaved' the casing and base glasses are first blown separately before being blown into each other; the combined piece is then worked as a cylinder muff in the usual manner. Blowing the glass layers separately allowed for the introduction of effects into the interleaving stage - 'Filigrana' and trailed patterns, powder colouring, air trap and even further overlays. One or other of the layers may be coloured, and the base (outer) layer is often mildly opalescent and sometimes has a pitted surface, due to sand working. The intention appears to have been to create a range of glasses with the colour & texture of American style opalescents yet retaining the glassy brilliance prefered by British designers.....the drawbacks included its high price and presumed difficulty in cutting"
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victorrothman



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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if that glass was made than. Contact Kokomo. They have some historical documents. Including sales orders to Tiffany.
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